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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:These changes look extremely promising, but I have to confess that my excitement level spiked high enough that it rang the "may be OP" bell in my head.
-Liang So it's not just me. I was mooting that the 15% mentioned in other threads risked being OTT (in PvE). 30%....on a properly fit CNR is going to be nothing short of hilarious. I'm not sure it enough for PvP, but certainly for PvE the raven pilots are going to be laughing their way to the bank. Edit: Don't get me wrong I like it but....damnit, it's a BIG boost. I suppose to compensate they could take away your drone bay.  Done bay is really good for pushing EFT warrior numbers up  I was thinking more about the forum comedy that would generate. "Great, now my Raven rocks in missions... unless there are frigates and cruisers... which eat me alive and there isn't a thing I can do about them."
It wouldn't produce such comments, as they would just load precisions and kill them in a few volleys ;D |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
And they are pretty ok tbh. They do work and it's reasonable to switch to them in a lot of cases. With 30% moar dmg, they will be able to kill even the nastiest mission frig in 2 volley's I would guess. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 16:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Funky Lazers wrote:
Speaking of PvP, how does the change make Cruises any better than before? I mean the damage will be still penalized after this change or will become worse because of Expl radius increase.
So is it a PvP or PvE buff?
You should read the dev-comments in this thread..
CCP Rise wrote:
Please keep in mind this change is not comprehensive. Following Odyssey, we hope to do more work to improve the missile systems in EVE by potentially adding new modules and/or interactions.
+
CCP Rise wrote:
So, as a few of you have mentioned, damage application is one of the biggest obstacles for missiles. I completely agree, but I don't want to solve this problem through Cruise Missiles as a system. I have other ideas for dealing with it, unfortunately they will likely not make it in for Odyssey.
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 14:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
- Have massively reduced range for your top damage missiles (talking 20km)
T1 Torpedo at all Lv 5 (unbonused ship) = 20.4 KM
T2 Rage at all Lv 5 (unbonused ship) = 16.9 KM
I would like to see T2 torps have 20KM range baseline.. ;)
I have to agree though that the majority of the last comments are crap. This buff is well thought out. We are going to get a good chunk of more DPS, and the prepared pilots can apply it aswell.
Ofcourse CM's will compete with turrets now, but I can't see how that is wrong, given the problems you have with applying dmg. A missile boat dedicating all rig slots and 1-2 med slots to dmg application should do reasonable well, and this is what the changes are doing.
Ofcourse dmg application against smaller targets won't be perfect, but it was never intended to be perfect anyway. You can't just let cruise missiles blap frigs and/or cruisers to easily, and that is why explosion radius gets a slight increase.
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Trolly McForumalt wrote:
Here is what I consider to be a reasonable expectation for missiles as a starting point:
* Rockets and light missiles should do full damage to stationary frigate sized targets
* Heavy missiles and HAMs should do full damage to stationary cruiser sized targets
* Torpedoes and cruise missiles should do full damage to stationary battleship sized targets
* Citadel torpedos and cruise missiles should do full damage to stationary capital sized targets and modest damage to BS sized targets
* This should apply to all T2 variants as well
So everyone (no matter which size he's in) should be able to mitigate a lot of dmg from missiles just because he double-clicked in space, and everyone beeing shot with bigger missiles should take literaly no dmg at all? This would happen if you change it that way while keeping the current formula..
The tough question in here is: how much damage should a missile do?
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 16:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Trolly McForumalt wrote:
Uh... I never said anything like that... at all. I *was* saying that cruiser sized missile systems, including T2 variants like Rage, should do full damage to stationary cruiser-sized targets. Currently, they do not. The current signature radius part of the damage equation is probably fine. The velocity portion of the equation needs to be less harsh. I have no idea where you got what you wrote.
If full dmg is applied to stationary targets only, double-clicking in space would result in a huge dmg mitigation. That's where I got it out of. Obviously, that wasn't part of your suggestion. Sry 
Quote:You are assuming that the present damage-calculation formula is balanced. Which has been proposed to be a false assumption.
Nah, that's not what I'm doing. I guess all missile-users know where the flaw is. The point is, that you'ld need to figure out how much damage a missile should do against targets of various sizes and at various speeds before you change the formula. Yes, a new formula would make sense, but it's a thin line between OP and useless.
It isn't as easy as proposing a new formula based on RL physics.. It needs to fit for EvE.. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 11:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Just one thing to help missiles (and torps) one tiny little thing that will help them more than some strange stats manipulating... Move Target Painters to High Slot ffs 
Are you serious? Moving the only long-range module which does have an impact on missile dmg application to a high-slot is bad..
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Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 20:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:marVLs wrote:Just one thing to help missiles (and torps) one tiny little thing that will help them more than some strange stats manipulating... Move Target Painters to High Slot ffs Are you serious? Moving the only long-range module which does have an impact on missile dmg application to a high-slot is bad.. So anyone use them on meds? Nope, almost every missile ship have free high slot, and that will help them a lot, buffing missiles? In some ways yes but only missile buff makes TP another useless (in terms no one use them) mod. Btw. TP help turrets too. With TP on higs slots ravens will be finally used at pvp, and think about typhoons...
It's better to have them in meds, as you do have the option to sacrifice a little tank for more gank that way. If it would be a highslot module, you would still have the option to fit them, yeah, but you are very limited on them (i.e 1 TP on most missile ships, including the phoon and the raven after their rebalance). Most ships would have to sacrifice launcherslots for dmg application - a little odd. ;)
Also, missiles suck because of delayed damage and their poor damage application.. how would a highslot TP help with that, if you're only having 1 TP at all?
Missiles could need a tracking enhancer, but TP in highslots wouldn't really help. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Also, missiles suck because of delayed damage and their poor damage application.. how would a highslot TP help with that, if you're only having 1 TP at all?
Missiles could need a tracking enhancer, but TP in highslots wouldn't really help.
So who's flying alone in BS on pvp? Take 3xTyphoon with expl velo bonus and everyone have 1xTP, that gives 3xTP on a target... BC's and BS's would melt from Rage torpedoes  Counter? Don't get in range like blasters Ravens have range but not expl velo bonus so need to speed tank portion of that damage And no one sacrifice tank or something else for TP, BS's have weak tanks already (for their price and useful) Other option is buff BS's tank for about 1/3 of it's current state and give them more meds or special slot that can be fitted only for one BS's designed modules like MJD or target breaker.
Damage remains laughable even with 3 TP's on small targets.. I can't hit fast moving cruisers in PvE with fury for more than half the dmg with dual rigor II's, max skills and a RF TP.. Now think about Rage torps on boats without rigors on player controlled targets.. ;)
It wouldn't change anything at all, besides the fact that you wouldn't be able to Dual TP a missile boat any longer..
Edit: Oh, and 20 m/s more explo-velocity wouldn't change much.. ;) |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 21:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Good to know. I was under the impression that it was the HM nerf that did in missile doctrines, but since you two have way more experience for obvious reasons I defer to your judgment.
Maybe missiles should be given more HP? Firewalls are fine, they should be a valid counter, because they come with a price.
Wow, we've seen the worst post in this thread :D
Firewalls are not fine.. Yes, they come at a price, but the benefit can be way... way to huge.. Firewalling can mitigate just too much damage from missles. Besides that, there is no benefit of missiles which might be a justification for such a huge "counter"..
Just try to compare firewall and ECM.. and think over how much damage a dedicated ECM ship can mitigate.. now compare that to firewall.. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 23:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Just try to compare firewall and ECM.. and think over how much damage a dedicated ECM ship can mitigate.. now compare that to firewall..
Yes compare how much damage a ECM ship can mitigate and now compare it against firewall ships. Use gun ships for the enemy fleet. ;-)
please biomass yourself :D |
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